Comic Book Noise 150: Defending $3.99
Posted on | December 18, 2008 | 18 Comments
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With the price of comic books reaching $3.99 and the podo- and blogo-spheres in an uproar, it is up to host Derek Coward to explain why it is not only a good thing but potentially a GREAT thing in the long run.
Category: Comic Book Noise
Tags: conjecture > dc comics > marvel comics > price > reckless speculation
Tags: conjecture > dc comics > marvel comics > price > reckless speculation
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Derek,
Listened to the episode this morning driving through the snowy confines of my burgh. I would say that we’re coming at the issue of $3.99 from different angles, although not necessarily opposing ones.
I wish/hope you’re right about the higher price being a determinant of more people trying indies, I just don’t believe it’s going to happen. As I said in the 11 O’C thread, I would rank “price of indies” way, way down the list of why indies don’t get the attention they deserve.
I also worry that people will continue to buy Marvel and DC books and keep their budgets the same, which means even less incremental money to go into trying new books. That’s a bummer.
I DO absolutely agree with you that Marvel and DC need to step up now more than ever. I also agree that they had to assume further degradation of the reader base with this price hike. A 10% drop in unit readership combined with a 33% price hike still prints them more money and shows investors like me “growth”; even if most investors won’t think about whether the move is good for the industry long term.
Karma for the empassioned and out-of-the-box perspective.
Wood
Thanks for listening, Jason.
I agree that price isn’t the only thing keeping indies below the radar. I think a lot of their problem is a lack of marketing. However, if a greater percentage of the remaining comic book readers are ones that are more likely to sample and evangelize their product, I think they can increase market share. Slowly, but I think it can be done.
That is, of course, if the indies in question can put out books that can appeal to the hardcore reader without being too much of a watered down version of the DC and Marvel Universes.
Unfortunately, I think that some indies are going to use this latest price increase as a reason to bump up to $4.50, which I think will be the next price point.
As I understand it, the big two aren’t getting as much magazine rack space because of the low price. Of course instead of their saying, “hmmm, maybe we should market something bigger, like say an anthology title,” they just decide to raise the price.
I know, they’ve already tried an anthology title and it didn’t work, so that means that it will never work, right?
Personally, I think the Japanese mangas have the right idea, weekly 8 page installments and then a collected edition when there’s enough. Why not put out a B&W weekly, and then make it color when it’s collected, for the added incentive to buy?
Anyway, I too hope that it opens up the market for smaller press publishers. Thanks as always for the insightful, thoughtful podcast!
Thanks Bruce. I think the problem with the anthology format the way that the Big Two have done it in the past is that they used the titles as dumping grounds for C and D list characters with new, untested creative teams in stories that were easily dismissed.
Instead of following the formula that made All-Star Comics a hit decades earlier and made the Justice League/Justice Society crossovers of the 70s so enjoyable (the team comes together and splits up into individual chapters until the end of the book when they all come back together), both companies has just commissioned short eight page stories with no connection to one another and slapped a wraparound cover on it.
I wanted to like Marvel Comics Presents, but when most of the stories in the first issue featured D list or completely unknown characters in part 1 of 12, I knew it was doomed.
Like with so many things, DC and Marvel have to commit and stay committed to the various concepts that could make a splash in the long run. Right now it seems like the only thing both companies are deeply and profoundly committed to, is parting the few remaining diehards from the money in their wallets.
I hope that smaller publishers can step up and steal some market share, but they have to quit trying to play the game with the rules that DC and Marvel have created. It won’t work.
I agree with just about everything you said in this. I have been complaining about the state of comics for a very long time, because for the past…maybe 2 years, I just don’t care about most of the stuff. Even Indie stuff usually doesn’t ignite my fire, but you may know that I consider Invincible to be my favorite title. I miss those golden days that I only knew briefly, the days of 75 cent comics that had lots of content and lots of words in them.
I think that this time in 2 years, Marvel and DC’s publishing branches will either have seriously cut most of their line, or they will have re-vamped their publishing model. Remember when Quesada came into Marvel close to a decade ago, and he cut all the extra and unecessary titles? He cut the X-books to the bare minimum, he brought the characters back to a very accessible place, and he put the kibosh on crossovers for a few years? I think that’s coming again, but even more drastically. I think we will see more budget comics like the slim line from Image, and I think that the monthly sales numbers for single issues will dip to near nothing. I think true comics fans have some very dark days ahead of them, and that we may be facing one of the most challenging (but also interesting) times in the medium. Maybe since Wertham.
Anyway, I just thought it was worth mentioning to you that I agree with your ideas and opinions, and I too think that people should check out more indie books if they are unsatisfied.
Great episode.
Great episode Derek and some interesting comments you mention. I don't agree with them all but I will give my two cent's. Indies already have the 3.99 tag and now Marvel is joining. DC will soon follow. It makes sense for them to do this because of declining sales. Will this hurt the market? I believe it will and I feel that it will not help indies at all. It will hurt them. People like the characters they grew up with and want to keep enjoying them and it is easier to drop books that don't have a weath of history. At least that is how I feel. The price hike for me is going to effect my budget and it is going to effect indies the most. I will get less of them because I am engrossed in the big two. I feel that will be the majority of people. I think newer readers will latch onto indies easier because there is not that much history but there are not that much new readers. We will see as Diamond publishes their monthly sales figures and I hardly ever see much change there. My predication is Marvel will increase, DC will increase and indies will decrease. I am talking about sales percentages here and not overall sales. I think overall sales will drop across the board because of the economy and the price hike. I don't think trades are the answer because the prices will raise on those as well.
I don't like that you say there is a lot of crap coming out of the big two. I disagree and personally feel I am getting more enjoyment out of my Marvel and DC more now they recently. You have the right to feel that way but there is a lot of crap coming out from all the other companies too. Superman titles and Amazing Spider-man are fantastic. I am really digging JSA and Justice League of America. Jonah Hex keeps exceeding my expectations. I really am loving Final Crisis and am looking forward to the Hulk every week. The Avengers books are all great. I think there is so much to love from the big two.
In a nutshell the price hike is going to cause me to get less. When I go through previews I think it will effect my indies the most.
PS. I love the new look and feel of the website.
Bruce, Marvel is trying that huge anthology right now with Marvel Your Universe where they put X-men with other titles like Immortal Iron Fist. In my opinion this will fail like all of their other attempts. I don’t think an anthology will work and those people that demand them probably don’t support them anyway. Just my two cents.
Mike, sorry you don’t agree but that’s what makes life exciting.
I’m glad that you like the Avengers books, but since the Secret Invasion started, they have bored me silly. I haven’t read Spider-Man since before Civil War because I found him to be treading water and I’m not spending money on the post-Mephisto Spider-Man experiment because that’s what the rest of you are for. Justice League of America turned me off with their alternating writers when I just wanted to read McDuffie and the Justice Society of America lost me when they brought back Kingdom Come. I haven’t read Superman since they got rid of the yellow triangles and The Hulk lost me at issue 2. My thoughts on Final Crisis are well documented, although I did like some of the crossovers.
I’m glad you like those titles, but none of them have moved me to spend my money on them. Just like you apparently haven’t been moved to read any of the titles that I rave about.
The price hike isn’t going to affect my spending for obvious reasons, but on those occasions where I can spend some money, it won’t be going to the DC or Marvel Universes, because for right now, they bore me.
I read all of the titles that you mentioned except Parhapenauts. I have said this in a previous post. Although I was already getting the other books before you mentioned them. I even tried Vinyl Underground but that book was not to my liking.
If you don’t like what Marvel and DC are doing then I support you 100% for not supporting them and sticking to Indies. There are times in the podcast when you refer to DC and Marvel titles as crap and it is like you are speaking down to your listeners who are enjoying them and that is where I get defensive.
Just because I think something is crap doesn’t mean that I don’t have respect for the people who like it or the people who create it. All it means is that I don’t like it. It is the same thing when I like something, that doesn’t automatically mean that I don’t have respect for people who don’t.
In fact I have more respect for someone like you who tries new things and decides whether or not to continue with them than I do for someone who sticks with the same old things long after they no longer like them simply because they have been buying them for twenty years.
Where my disappointment comes is when I see low sales estimates for something that I think is high quality and high sales figures for something that I hear A LOT of other people complaining about but have variant covers or tie-ins with the latest crossover events.
I find it interesting that you seem to be upset that I called some things crap when to my knowledge I have been very careful about not naming names outside of a couple of bad reviews for things that I bought and read (like the majority of Countdown, Final Crisis 1, Titans 1 and The Ray 13). I also find it interesting that you seem to be most vocal about me “talking down” to other people after I talk about things that I don’t like, but when I talk positively about things, you have very little or no comment.
Listen to how many times over the last couple of episodes you state Marvel and DC are crap. There is at least one mention in every episode. If you said True Story Swear to God, Proof or Locke and Key were crap then I would defend those books as well. The books you taked about lately I am behind in so I can’t comment on them. I don’t comment on the positive stuff unless there is something I can add to the conversation. In most of the recent cases I am behind on some of those issues and can’t comment on it. The only book you have praised that I am caught up is True Story Swear to God and you only talk about this series in general so I can’t add anything.
Thank you for the feedback. I will keep it in mind when preparing my next episode.
I… I was going to comment on the episode, but I’m blinded like a magpie with the new site design. Must go play in the new sandbox.
Peter, don’t get too attached. I like the way it looks, but it does irritating things whenever I try to add pictures into posts. If I can’t figure out how to get around that, I might trade it in for a newer model.
Derek,
Excellent topic for #150 (and congrats btw). I think that DC, Marvel and the rest of them will keep on experimenting with price increases. There doesn’t seem to be slowing down anytime soon; and yes the collected editions will continue to creep up as well. Thank goodness for a book like Local (nearly 400 pages for $30).
I think Marvel and DC are slowly evolving into managers of Intellectual properties. The comics are just a slice of the pie. The are making more money off of films, video games and product licensing than they ever will just the publishing the comics. The comics are essentially R&D for everything else. Its unique in comparison to other companies in the fact that it turns a profit as opposed to being a cost center .
Mr. Christmas, I agree with you. I just wonder what will happen if either of them ever decides that it isn’t worth being in the comic book publishing game. I could actually see DC packing it in before Marvel, but it is definitely a possibility. I have always said that I don’t see the comic book industry ever going away completely but there could come a day when 20k in sales means a smash hit.
Derek good episode. I don’t like the idea of raising prices but it might have potential for some good things. I have some ideas how to make this a good thing.
1. Raise the page count.They could do this by adding a back up story or going old school and having a letters page. But I would prefer it be adding more story pages.
2. Get rid of continuity on most of the books. Let writers and artists tell the stories they want to tell. For instance instead of just one Batman book have a bunch of different miniseries. This way creators can tell the stories they want to tell and readers can pick the kind of Batman stories they want to read.And when the story they want to tell is over its done.
3. Do an anthology.The main story should star a major character. But the extra ones could be smaller stories about minor characters. Most of the stories should be self contained too. DC used to have a book called Showcase it had a main story starring Catwoman or the Huntress and the several smaller stories starring Blue Devil or Cyborg. I thought it was good.
4. Bring back newsstand editions. In the 90s you had a choice to buy the fancy collectible cover or the one with the regular cover. Bring that back by having a second version thats sold on cheaper paper so they can sell it for less.